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Debates of the Senate (Hansard)

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1st Session, 44th Parliament
Volume 153, Issue 64

Wednesday, September 28, 2022
The Honourable George J. Furey, Speaker


THE SENATE

Wednesday, September 28, 2022

The Senate met at 2 p.m., the Speaker in the chair.

Prayers.

[Translation]

SENATORS’ STATEMENTS

Joyce Echaquan

Hon. Michèle Audette: Kuei.

[Editor’s Note: Senator Audette spoke in Innu.]

Colleagues, I would like to acknowledge, thank and give hope to all nations, but especially the one that is hosting us today on their unceded territory, the Anishinaabe nation. Tshinashkumitnau.

Today, I stand before you to honour the memory of a gentle warrior named Joyce Echaquan.

Two years ago, she left us in a very tragic manner. This Atikamekw woman tragically died at the Joliette hospital under a slew of racist insults from the staff. The horrific video of this incident outraged the world and raised the public’s awareness about systemic racism and discrimination.

Faced with this intolerable and unacceptable situation, the Conseil des Atikamekw de Manawan and the Conseil de la Nation Atikamekw proposed Joyce’s Principle, a principle the draws inspiration from the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. This principle also seeks to ensure that all Indigenous people have the right to equitable access to health and social services without discrimination, as well as the right to enjoy the best possible physical, mental, emotional and spiritual health. In fact, colleagues, if you have not already done so, I encourage you to read Joyce’s Principle and support it.

Coroner Kamel’s report also called on the Government of Quebec to acknowledge the existence of systemic racism within our institutions and commit to helping eliminate it. I would like to quote from Ms. Kamel’s report:

It is clear that the road to reconciliation is a long and arduous one. Efforts are all the more necessary, as the findings of this enquiry indicate that Mrs. Echaquan was indeed ostracised, and that her death was directly related to the care that she received during her hospitalisation in September of 2020, and that her death could have been avoided.

The courage in the words aiming at pacifying our relationships with others is crucial. We must have a firm will to name, but without having a cosmetic intent regarding a principle that is so clear: The right of all to goodwill and to living in a free and democratic society, in the hope that every human being deserves the same services with dignity and respect and who above all, deserves to live.

I made a commitment to Joyce, to her husband Carol, to her late father Michel, who is now with his daughter, and to her whole family and the entire Atikamekw community to walk by their side, to walk with them. We have a responsibility and a duty to work together to change things.

Carol, Jemima, the children, Diane, Solange and Chief Flamand, you are always in my thoughts.

Joyce, you inspired us with your courage. I am hopeful, and I will carry on.

Iame.

[English]

The Canadian Association of Parliamentarians on Population and Development

Hon. Rosemary Moodie: Honourable senators, I address you on behalf of the Canadian Association of Parliamentarians for Population Development, or CAPPD — a multi-party group of parliamentarians committed to advancing sexual and reproductive health and rights for all — of which I am a proud member.

Today, on International Safe Abortion Day, this group recognizes the tireless efforts of health care providers and community organizations, across Canada and around the world, who work to support access to safe and dignified abortion care. Globally, a staggering 45% of abortions are unsafe. Unsafe abortion is a leading cause of maternal death globally and hospitalizes millions of women every year.

While abortion care is about providing essential health care, it’s also about the right to control one’s own body. The United States Supreme Court’s decision to repeal Roe v. Wade is the culmination of decades of attacks on abortion rights, led and funded by anti-human rights groups. These actors are organizing against the rights of women.

We need to organize in support of human rights and equality. CAPPD welcomes the 2022 World Health Organization’s Abortion care guideline that recommends the full decriminalization of abortion and universal access to abortion and self-management options. Canada must continue the important work of increasing access to abortion care in our country, as well as continue to champion this work globally.

As a group of parliamentarians, CAPPD is committed to advancing work that would help close gaps in accessing safe abortion care in Canada and around the world and support the fundamental right to bodily autonomy for everyone. It welcomes others joining us in our collective work in this area.

Canada has a strong history of commitment to sexual and reproductive health rights, both domestically and internationally, with a series of investments in recent years. This commitment should make us all very proud. We must continue to safeguard access to sexual and reproductive health services and ensure that we continue to work hard to end preventable death and illness from unsafe abortion worldwide.

(1410)

Arctic Sovereignty

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: Honourable senators, the preamble of the 1993 Nunavut Land Claims Agreement specifically recognized “the contributions of Inuit to Canada’s history, identity and sovereignty in the Arctic.”

I’m happy to announce that I’m working with Inuit development corporations from all regions of Inuit Nunangat to host an Arctic sovereignty and security summit in Iqaluit on October 3.

After welcoming the early explorers, whalers, traders and missionaries who needed help navigating and surviving in the Arctic, Inuit have provided ongoing contributions to sovereignty and security in Canada’s Arctic. They have been an important presence during the operation of the Distant Early Warning Line system during the Cold War, and Inuit corporations have played a lead role in the cleanup of that DEW Line and other contaminated sites from that era. More recently, a pan-Arctic, Inuit-led consortium, Pan Arctic Inuit Logistics Corporation, Nasittuq, has recently been contracted by Canada again to operate and maintain the North Warning System.

That technology is now outdated and in need of modernization — a reality that decades of Russian militarization in their Arctic and Vladimir Putin’s unprovoked and reckless invasion of Ukraine has highlighted this year. So it was welcome and long-awaited news that Canada is now committed to NORAD modernization with a commitment of $4.9 billion in Budget 2022, and a further $20 billion over the coming decade.

Arctic sovereignty cannot and must not be only about militarization. It must be about more than new military hardware and modernizing surveillance technology. It must also be about the people and communities of the Arctic. This summit is being organized with the aim of sensitizing our federal government to opportunities for legacy community infrastructure and continued Inuit participation in NORAD modernization. We must seize this opportunity to reinforce Canadian sovereignty in the Arctic by also working toward narrowing the infrastructure gap in the North in communications, transportation, energy, roads, ports and airports. This is about not neglecting the human and community dimension in establishing sovereignty and security in the Arctic.

In the past, sovereignty and security in the Arctic has come at the expense of Inuit, including a tragic history of forced relocation. Today, we have the opportunity to include Inuit from the very beginning, letting them lead the discussion with their stated priorities and goals.

I am happy that the Senate Defence Committee will travel to the North in its forthcoming fact-finding tour as part of its study on Arctic sovereignty. I’d like to thank Senator Dean, chair of the committee, and his steering committee colleagues for supporting this opportunity for our Senate committee and its staff. I hope this summit will be helpful to the committee in formulating its recommendations to our government on strengthening Arctic sovereignty. Qujannamik.

Johnny Cash Gets His Moose

Hon. Fabian Manning: Honourable senators, today I’m pleased to present chapter 61 of “Telling Our Story.”

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

Senator Manning: Many country fans throughout the world believe they know the life story of Johnny Cash, known far and wide as the “man in black.” His is a life story filled with extremely high peaks and even deeper valleys that has been told and retold through various books, magazines, newspapers, and even an Oscar-winning movie titled Walk the Line.

The “Folsom Prison Blues” singer never shot a man in Reno, but, in October of 1961, Johnny Cash shot and bagged a 500‑pound moose in the Victoria Lake area, just south of Millertown in Newfoundland and Labrador.

A week or so before his trip to our province, Cash performed at a charity show at Toronto’s Massey Hall. At that particular time, the multi-talented singer was struggling. His career had hit a slump.

During that period, a fast-talking Canadian concert promoter by the name of Saul Holiff was organizing Canadian tours for Cash, and he knew that Cash loved to hunt. He asked the singer, “Have you ever hunted moose in Newfoundland?” Of course, Cash said, “No.” Holiff followed up with, “If I can set up a tour around a moose hunt in October, are you in?” Cash quickly replied, “Are you kidding? I am there.”

The tour made stops in Grand Falls-Windsor, Stephenville, Corner Brook, Argentia, Harbour Grace and St. John’s. When female singer Rose Maddox quit in the middle of the tour, Holiff hired June Carter as her replacement. Seven years later, Cash married June Carter after proposing to her on stage in London, Ontario.

At the end of the tour, Saul Holiff became Johnny Cash’s full‑time manager from 1961 to 1973, helping Cash grow into a country music legend. They sealed their partnership with a handshake at the airport in Gander on October 10, 1961.

With his Department of Mines, Agriculture and Resources moose licence numbered 20206, issued on October 11, 1961, Cash and his entourage headed out for the logging camp at Victoria Lake. Accompanying them as their trusted and capable guide was former wildlife officer Herman Whalen, who was 29 years old at the time — the same age as Cash himself — and both men had served in the Air Force.

Mr. Whalen said that they were never stuck for something to talk about, and Cash was very personable, talking mostly about his family. Whalen said Cash thought Newfoundland was a beautiful place and had dreams of coming back.

The first morning, just 20 minutes outside the logging camp, Whalen saw a moose in the distance. Whalen told Cash it was a female moose and did not have any antlers. Cash replied, “You can’t eat antlers.”

From 200 yards away, Johnny Cash felled the 500-pound moose, and another interesting chapter in Newfoundland’s history was unfolding. The moose was later sent to Grand Falls where the meat was packaged and sent on to Cash a few days later.

In 2012, following the passing of Cash’s manager Saul Holiff, his filmmaker son, Jonathan, discovered a box labelled “Johnny Cash.” It contained hundreds of photos, letters and audio recordings, and from those he produced the documentary My Father and the Man in Black.

A short time later, Jonathan was contacted by a collector from St. John’s who had 30 photos of Johnny Cash’s hunting trip to Newfoundland in 1961 and suggested that Holiff, Jr. tell the tale of the visit.

While I am confident that Johnny Cash was much more comfortable at the logging camp at Victoria Lake in Newfoundland than he was at San Quentin State Prison, there was no ring of fire. It was just a single shot that brought down a moose and went down in the history books of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

Visitors in the Gallery

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of the delegation of Easter Seals Canada, including Hoor Ulain Nassani, Sebastien Parent and Alex Lytwyn. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Ravalia.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!

Easter Seals Canada

Hon. Mohamed-Iqbal Ravalia: Honourable senators, I rise today to recognize Easter Seals’ one-hundredth year of operations in this country.

Easter Seals is Canada’s largest local provider of programs and services for persons with disabilities. Since 1922, the organization and its 10 provincial members have been working to create a more inclusive and accessible society that honours the contributions of Canadians of all abilities.

For 100 years now, Easter Seals organizations have been serving a broad range of individuals — both children and adults — with varying physical, intellectual, sensory and learning disabilities to help to ensure that every person has access to the equipment, programs, services and support that they need to make the most of their abilities and live their lives to the fullest.

Easter Seals provides a wide range of services and supports, including access to assistive and adaptive technologies, specialized education and job training programs and services, sport, recreation and leisure programs, rehabilitative and occupational therapy, residential and respite programs, day and overnight camps.

For 100 years, Easter Seals has represented the best values of our country by working to build a more inclusive and more welcoming Canada — a Canada where every person can thrive, contribute and live the life they choose with independence and dignity.

I had the pleasure of meeting with the Easter Seals delegation this morning in my office, and I’d like to welcome them and thank them for coming to Ottawa to share in this momentous occasion. In particular, I welcome our youth ambassadors.

I have no doubt that for the next 100 years, Easter Seals will continue to honour and support the needs and aspirations of Canadians living with disabilities and their families by providing vital services and promoting access, inclusion, opportunity and community.

Please join me in thanking Easter Seals for their century of service. With all that has already been accomplished, I am eager to see what the next century of achievement will bring.

The Easter Seals’ one-hundredth anniversary celebrations will continue tonight at the Métropolitan Brasserie. I hope to see you there. Thank you, meegwetch.

(1420)

Human Rights in Iran

Hon. Salma Ataullahjan: Honourable senators, I rise today to strongly condemn the actions of the so-called morality police in Iran following the death of Mahsa Amini. I wish to echo the rage of my sisters in Iran who, as we speak, face violence and death for upholding their rights.

I cannot hide my anger at the pointlessness of Mahsa Amini’s death in police custody two weeks ago. The 22-year-old woman was detained by the morality police for allegedly wearing her hijab too loosely. I want to stress that women’s bodies have been policed in Iran since the 1979 Iranian Revolution, when authorities imposed a dress code requiring all women to wear a headscarf and loose-fitting clothing that disguises their figures in public.

As a practising Muslim woman, I am angry to see men justify this oppression under the guise of religion. The Quran clearly states that “there is no compulsion in religion, the right direction is clearly distinguished from the wrong.”

Yet, the Iranian morality police, or the Gasht-e Ershad, have the authority to stop women and assess their appearance. Women who do not respect authorities’ interpretation of proper clothing may be fined, imprisoned or even flogged. This goes against the very basis of the religion they pretend to uphold. Muslims learn from a young age that God is the only judge.

How dare these men condemn women for how they dress in public. This obsession with controlling women’s bodies must cease.

Across Iran, protesters have been chanting “woman, life, freedom” while facing brutal retaliation from police. I want to highlight the resilience and courage of women who continue to push back against discriminatory laws across the country. I cannot stay silent while my sisters risk their lives by cutting their hair and burning their hijabs in the streets. At least 57 women have died during the protests, and the death toll will surely continue to rise.

It is shocking that some Iranians in the midst of such violence are calling for protesters to be silenced.

Honourable colleagues, I stand in solidarity with the Muslim women forced to wear, or to remove, their hijab. Women have a right to agency over their own bodies, and no man should ever tell a woman what to wear. Thank you.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS

Adjournment

Notice of Motion

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I give notice that, at the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:

That, when the Senate next adjourns after the adoption of this motion, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, October 4, 2022, at 2 p.m.

The Senate

Motion Regarding the Ukraine Adopted

Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 5-5(j), I move:

That the Senate of Canada:

(a)recognize the right of the Ukrainian people to determine their own future, and to be free from any and all outside interference;

(b)recognize the territorial integrity of Ukraine and its sovereignty, which was recognized at the time of the Budapest Memorandum in 1994 and includes Crimea and the Donbas;

(c)denounce the fraudulent and undemocratic referenda forced upon the people of the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine by Russia;

(d)condemn all coercive and violent tactics undertaken by Russia in the Russian-occupied regions of Ukraine;

(e)affirm its steadfast support for the people of Ukraine and their right to peace and security; and

(f)condemn any and all escalation of military and other attacks on Ukraine and its people by Russia.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

QUESTION PERIOD

Public Safety

Parole Board of Canada

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, in last week’s ministerial Question Period with Minister Marc Miller, I asked a question regarding the inherent problems with Canada’s revolving-door justice system, which too often lets violent offenders roam free, as was the case of Myles Sanderson, who prior to committing the horrific attacks in Saskatchewan had 59 former convictions.

Your colleague’s answer was:

There are systemic natures to the violence and the response needs to be a systemic one that cannot be limited to policing our way out of the problem or locking people in jail and throwing away the key.

Leader, I found this answer troubling. While I can appreciate that not every case is the same, it is certainly up to our justice system to exercise good judgment to determine which cases put the safety of Canadians at risk. We sadly saw what the consequences are of failing to properly do so earlier this month in Saskatchewan.

Leader, unlike your colleague, do you believe that there are any circumstances in which an individual should be incarcerated for a certain period of time? Aren’t 59 convictions enough?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. I share your concern and all Canadians’ concerns for the quality and efficacy of our criminal justice system. I agree with the minister that there are many aspects that need to be addressed, including our correctional system and the criminal justice system. But there are broader social determinants of crime and delinquency that also have to be considered. If your question is whether I believe in mandatory minimum sentences, I think the evidence is compelling that they fail to deliver on their promise. In that regard, the government is very pleased to have brought forward Bill C-5, which is currently being studied in committee and, I hope, has the support of all senators.

Senator Plett: Senator Gold, I’m sure you can appreciate that it is not very reassuring to Canadians to hear a minister of the government, or indeed the leader of the government in this chamber, say the solution is not to lock people in jail and throw away the key. Nor does it offer any comfort to the families who have lost loved ones in the Saskatchewan tragedy. I guess Canadians will just have to lock their doors because the only answer the Liberals have to offer is ideology.

Leader, how many more tragedies need to occur for this Liberal government to understand that their soft-on-crime approach only puts Canadians at risk?

(1430)

Senator Gold: Senator Plett, this government is not soft on crime. It is being serious about crime and its causes and effects. The tragedies that happened are tragedies, and, with the greatest of respect, this is not something that should be used to gain ideological points just because the party you represent has a different position on how to address crime than others. This government believes it is on the right track and it is firm, resolute and responsible in response to the real causes and consequences of crime.

Foreign Affairs

Canada-China Relations

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, my question is for the government leader in the Senate.

According to reports published this week, there are several satellite police stations operating in Canada on behalf of the communist regime of China. It has been reported that there are at least three of them operating in Toronto under the guise of assisting Chinese expats in Canada with administrative tasks back in their homeland of China. That sounds like something for consular staff to look at, not the Fuzhou Public Security Bureau, a police force active in the Chinese metropolis of Fuzhou.

Senator Gold, the real function of these service centres is clear. The communist regime of China is freely operating on Canadian soil to intimidate Canadians and others whose security should be assured while in this country. Senator Gold, what is your government doing to put a stop to these operations? Have these centres been closed down by Canadian authorities? And if they haven’t been, why not?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Well, thank you for your question and for bringing this matter to my attention. I will certainly make inquiries and report back.

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, these stories have been highlighted by the National Post, The Globe and Mail and, it seems, everybody under the sun, except it hasn’t come to the attention of your government or our authorities in this country.

I believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg. If there has ever been a call or a need for a foreign registry act and action to be taken with laws that have consequences for those who come to this country and try to influence the democracy of our country, it is now.

In the past, you and Minister Mendicino have shown tacit support for Bill S-237, which, of course, calls for a registry of foreign influence. Will you concretely support that act? Will you support it going to committee for study? Will you support it becoming law to deal with this pressing issue?

Senator Gold: Well, thank you. It is an important issue, of course. The government that I represent in this chamber is always keen to see bills properly studied, and I look forward to that study at committee.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

International Students

Hon. Tony Loffreda: Honourable senators, my question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. I would like to address the issue of Canada’s labour shortages and how immigration, and specifically international students, could help address this issue.

According to a recent economic report, international students are now a key talent pipeline for Canada, representing almost 40% of new economic-class immigrants. We also know that international students could help fill labour shortages in trades, services, health care and much more. In health care alone, the projected labour shortfall is nearly 111,000 by 2028.

I strongly believe Canada needs to do a better job at tapping into our diverse and highly qualified pool of international students to help fill labour shortages and contribute to our economic growth.

What new measures is the government taking to ensure international students can easily shift from the classroom to citizenship to the workplace in a timely and efficient manner?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you, senator, for your question. The government recognizes that international students represent a very promising pool of skilled and talented individuals in the Canadian labour market. It is my understanding that, as permanent residents, former international students have some advantages in the labour market and that the share of international students who worked while studying or after graduation has been increasing.

The government is committed to improving the experience for its clients, including students from abroad, and modernizing our immigration system. I’m advised that the government is also focused on ensuring that our immigration plans support our economic resurgence and post-pandemic growth.

With regard to any new measures or those already in place, I will have to make inquiries of the government. I hope to have an answer in a timely manner, but I will say this: The government remains committed to helping students enter the workforce as quickly as possible so that we can utilize their talents and skills.

Senator Loffreda: One statistic suggests that 50% of international students do not file a tax return post graduation, so that means we’re not retaining 50% of the students. What policies or targeted measures have the government implemented to recruit the best young talent from abroad, including international students?

I think we should monitor and keep track of the international students who are leaving Canada. We’re not doing that. I did make mention of that recently.

There are some concerns. Canada is struggling to keep this international pool of talent, and I think we should make a huge effort to try to retain this talent in Canada. Is there a specific strategy or strategies that you know of or have spoken to the government about or that you will speak to the government about to retain this talent?

Senator Gold: I can certainly answer yes to one of the last questions. I will certainly make inquiries. I’m not aware of specific programs, but I will say this: The amount of study permit holders in Canada has increased significantly, from 122,000 in 2000 to 642,000 in 2019. There is a large pool that we can hope to retain for the benefit of our country.

Moving forward, the government plans to address labour shortages by welcoming talented workers to Canada, including support for their training, youth employment programs and addressing the specific needs of the evolving sectors. Indeed, I’m advised that the government’s Immigration Levels Plan for 2022-24 aspires to continue to welcome immigrants at a historic rate.

I will make inquiries about the specific programs that may exist for retention and get back to you as quickly as I can.

[Translation]

Public Safety

Canada Border Services Agency—Migrant Detention

Hon. Marie-Françoise Mégie: Honourable senators, my question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. According to an article by investigative journalist Brigitte Bureau published on CBC this morning, one in four migrants, including children, ends up in prison.

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International put out a report in June 2021 that looks into the detention of migrants in Canada and documents serious human rights violations. The report also makes the following six recommendations to the government:

Gradually abolish immigration detention.

End the use of solitary confinement in immigration detention.

Establish an independent body responsible for overseeing and investigating CBSA . . . .

Sign and ratify the Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment . . . .

Conduct a national independent review of the immigration detention system . . . .

Withdraw Canada’s declaration and reservation to Article 12 of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

Does the government plan to implement the six recommendations made last year, and what timeline has it set to follow through on its commitments? If not, why not? Thank you.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Canada has a strong and fair refugee system that ensures the security of our borders and at the same time provides protection to those who need it. I have been assured that the detention of immigrants is a measure of last resort.

I have also been told that the government is making significant progress towards reform by implementing fundamental elements and the National Immigration Detention Framework to address the recommendations you highlighted, such as introducing a ministerial direction to end the housing of minors, ensuring that alternatives to detention are always considered first, developing health services and general conditions in immigration holding centres and reducing reliance on provincial facilities. The government recognizes that there is still work to be done and has made a commitment to continue fighting for a robust and balanced immigration system.

Senator Mégie: I am pleased to know that certain points were covered. Would it be possible for you to table in the Senate the responses to the various recommendations that were made or inform us of the measures that have been taken and what remains to be done? Would it be possible for you to take care of that?

(1440)

Senator Gold: Thank you for your supplementary question, honourable colleague. I will commit to seeking additional information from the government and to sharing the response with the chamber as soon as possible.

[English]

Canadian Heritage

RCMP Heritage Centre

Hon. Marty Klyne: Honourable senators, the 2019 mandate letter of the Minister of Canadian Heritage provided that the minister take steps to make the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Heritage Centre a national museum. The RCMP Heritage Centre is a magnificent building situated on the front lawn of the RCMP Depot Division — one of the most elite police training academies in the world.

The RCMP Heritage Centre is an incredible facility, telling the stories of the RCMP, the most unique police force in the world. With that comes difficult and good stories. All the same, that is our history; they are our stories. The RCMP is inextricably linked to the development of Western Canada, which presents many lessons to be learned and not forgotten.

However, the most recent mandate letter of the Minister of Canadian Heritage does not refer to making the RCMP Heritage Centre a national museum. Senator Gold, can you please update us on the progress of this file and clarify who the minister responsible is?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question, Senator Klyne. It underlines an important issue.

I will have to make inquiries to your specific question. But, as many senators know, there is a bill that is working its way through Parliament to set up a national commission on historic places and sites. I imagine that our discussion about that will also touch upon this important issue.

I will get back to the chamber with an answer as soon as I have received it.

Transport and Communications

Business of the Committee

Hon. Robert Black: Honourable senators, on Wednesdays the Canadian Senators Group directs questions to committee chairs. Therefore, today my question is for my honourable colleague, the Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications.

Senator Housakos, I understand that the pre-study the committee has been conducting on Bill C-11 has been an extensive process, and I would like to take this opportunity to thank you and our honourable colleagues on the committee for their continued dedication to tackling this topic.

I know that many Canadians have concerns with Bill C-11. I recently heard from members of 4-H Canada — an organization that is close to my heart, as many of you know — who shared concerns that the bill could set back many non-profit organizations, such as 4-H, that produce independent content on YouTube.

With that in mind, can you advise if your committee has heard from expert witnesses about concerns regarding the role of content creation and disallowing content on YouTube, as well as on other such platforms within the context of Bill C-11? Can you advise us if there are any potential impacts on non-profit organizations’ use of YouTube? Also, are there any other concerns that you believe the chamber should be made aware of with regard to this issue?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Thank you, Senator Black, for the question, and thank you for the notice you gave me of the question.

Yes, we have been discussing at length the inclusion of user-generated content in Bill C-11. Just yesterday, we heard directly from digital creators themselves, and we will hear from several more over the next few weeks. They have expressed their concerns that regulating user-generated content will put those digital creators at a possible huge disadvantage.

One of our witnesses testified yesterday that, as it stands right now, there is no gate keeping on a platform like YouTube. Anyone, including 4-H, as you have properly pointed out, can post their content, and they do not need government assistance to do so.

Mr. Justin Tomchuk testified that the internet is a level playing field for all Canadians who want to participate. As we continue our study of this bill, I’m concerned that, instead of removing barriers for marginalized voices and not-for-profit organizations like 4-H, we will be imposing barriers that are not currently there and creating an unequal playing field.

Senator Black, I want to thank you for your question and for raising this important point. I think our committee will agree that we should call 4-H to appear before our committee as we continue to call on independent digital and content providers. I also think it is imperative that our committee continues to drill down on this piece of legislation because — as we have gone through our pre-study and now our study — we are finding out there is a lot of light that needs to be shed in a lot of dark corners of this particular bill.

Also, given the fact that there was a lack of witnesses and scrutiny on the other side, where it was very politicized, it is imperative that we continue to do our due diligence. Thank you, senator.

International Trade

Trade Infrastructure

Hon. Yonah Martin (Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, my question is for the government leader.

Senator Gold, Canada is falling behind under this Trudeau government. According to a report released earlier this year from the Canada West Foundation, confidence in the reliability and competitiveness of Canada’s trade infrastructure has been declining, both here at home and abroad. In 2019, Canada was ranked thirty-second in the world, placing us below all of our major competitors. Trade and infrastructure experts have long been sounding the alarm on this and calling for Canada to urgently address its long-neglected trade infrastructure in order to remain competitive.

As our economy and population continue to grow, more strain will be put on our existing infrastructure.

Leader, why has your government not heeded these warnings? When are you going to address this?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. The Government of Canada has worked hard, and continues to work hard, to ensure that Canada’s economy not only recovers from the strains that we all lived through with the pandemic but also emerges vigorous and stronger than ever. Indeed, the statistics demonstrate that.

The Government of Canada continues to invest, both in human capital and in infrastructure, to make sure that we are positioned to take advantage of the opportunities that face us in the 21st century. That includes a serious climate plan and the transition to a more resilient and sustainable economy.

Senator Martin: Senator Gold, it seems like your government thinks that the fix-all solution to this problem is to simply throw money at issues as they arise rather than to address the root cause.

Former minister Perrin Beatty has said that your government has tended to measure infrastructure spending in terms of job creation, as opposed to what the “problem in need of a solution” is and what the economic returns are. This short-sighted approach is evidence of a lack of long-term planning by your government on this issue.

Senator Gold, when will your government start to get serious about the development of a long-term national plan to strengthen and secure Canada’s infrastructure and supply chains?

Senator Gold: Thank you, Senator Martin, for your question. On behalf of the government, I can say that I do not accept the premise of your question. This government is serious. Our credit rating, our job creation rate, the strength of our economy in various sectors and our ability to have recovered are thanks in no small measure to the investments that the federal government, as well as provincial governments, made, and the efforts of all Canadians.

This government is convinced that it is on the right course to position Canada to take advantage of the opportunities in this challenging world.

Transport

Railway Capacity

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, Canadian farmers are anticipating significant harvests of grain across the Prairies this fall, if it ever stops raining. That is an encouraging sign, given last year’s devastating drought, and it is something that could help ease sky-high food inflation. But Canada’s top grain companies are concerned that they will not be able to get their shipments to port on time due to what they are hearing from major rail companies. In the annual CN Grain Plan, the railway company warned that it expects total demand for rail services between Edmonton and the West Coast ports to exceed network capacity during some weeks.

Leader, Canadian farmers have dealt with the same issue year after year thanks to your government’s inaction in addressing our critical supply-chain issues. To help with this, I note that your government put together yet another task force in March, but you will forgive us and me on this side if we’re not all that encouraged.

When will your government finally act on this? When will you finally give Canadian farmers the break they deserve?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): All Canadians are grateful to Canadian farmers for the work they do and the food they produce — not only for us but also to benefit our economy through our exports. The challenges facing farmers — weather, as you noted; rising costs; and the like — are well-known. The government has many programs in place, as I have outlined in this chamber, to help members of the agricultural sector make their way through these sometimes very challenging times.

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This government will continue to take these issues seriously and will work as hard as it can to make sure that Canadian farmers and the industries they support prosper.

Senator Plett: Leader, for grain farmers the railways represent a lifeline, as they rely on this critical infrastructure to get their product to customers across Canada and around the world. Shipment delays translate to a higher cost to the grain company. The biggest loser in the end, Senator Gold, is not only the Canadian farmer but the entire world, especially in the context of the invasion of Ukraine.

Of course, we cannot fault the railway companies for this either, as so much of their capacity is taken up by Canada’s oil and natural gas due to this NDP-Liberal government’s efforts to prevent pipeline projects. Leader, why does this NDP-Liberal government not recognize the ripple effect this has on our supply chains and other commodity industries?

Senator Gold: The government supported, and indeed took over, a major pipeline because it recognizes the importance of that for our industry. Provincial premiers, at times, have been the ones to discourage infrastructure investments in that area. The government remains committed to helping all sectors of our economy prosper in this changing economic environment.

Finance

Cost of Fuel

Hon. Yonah Martin (Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Speaking of pipelines, Senator Gold, Canadians are trying to make ends meet amidst rising inflation rates and struggling to provide essentials like food for their families and filling up their cars. Global News reported today that tomorrow, on Thursday, Metro Vancouver gas prices will be 239.9 cents per litre, so $2.40 per litre, and will break an all-time record by three to four cents per litre for any city in North America. In Ontario, gas prices are significantly lower, with rates of $1.49 per litre, which is still high compared to other places. Leader, what is the government doing to help British Columbians and other provinces with skyrocketing fuel prices?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. Again, the fluctuation in energy prices and increasing food prices are a concern for all Canadians, regardless of their province. They do vary from province to province and city to city.

As I outlined yesterday and will not repeat, the government has a suite of measures that it has put in place and continues to put in place to provide help to Canadians, especially those with fewer means than most of us in this chamber enjoy, to get through these difficult times. It will continue to use its best efforts and resources, working, of course, with its partners and counterparts in the provinces and, in some cases, municipalities, to address the challenges that Canadians face.

Foreign Affairs

Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, in the wake of the murder of a 22-year-old woman in Iran and crackdowns on protests by the Iranian regime, calls for your government to list the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, as a terrorist entity have been renewed. In an interview on Monday, Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly was asked four times if your government is finally considering this. She avoided the question on all accounts. Let’s see if we have better luck with you, leader.

Your NDP-Liberal government has repeatedly failed to call the IRGC what it is. You failed to do so after Flight PS752 was shot down by Iran, claiming the lives of 55 Canadian citizens and 30 permanent residents. The families of the victims still do not have the long-demanded justice for the loss of their loved ones, and your promises to them have gone completely unfulfilled.

It still does not seem to be a consideration for your government, even now that a young woman is dead for failing to comply with the regime’s veiling laws, and women in Iran are protesting in the streets. I cannot say that I expected anything else from our fake feminist Prime Minister. Leader, what is your government waiting for? Why has it not listed the IRGC as a terrorist entity?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): The Government of Canada, along with all Canadians, I fully hope and expect, condemns the reprehensible detention and killing of Mahsa Amini. Her death was the direct result of the systemic and continued harassment and repression of women by the authorities in Iran. Canada remains concerned, has condemned and will continue to condemn the actions of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in the region. Canada has very robust measures to hold Iran to account. It has some of the toughest and most comprehensive sanctions in the world against Iran, and indeed, the IRGC-Quds Force is listed as a terrorist entity under the Criminal Code, as well as three Iran-backed regional militias.

Answers to Order Paper Questions Tabled

Public Safety—Firearms Buyback Program

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 41, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the firearms buyback program.

Employment and Social Development—Forced Labour

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 43, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding forced labour — Employment and Social Development Canada.

Global Affairs—Forced Labour

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 43, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding forced labour — Global Affairs Canada.

Public Safety—Forced Labour

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 43, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding forced labour — Public Safety Canada.

Justice—Jordan Decision of the Supreme Court

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 59, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the Jordan decision of the Supreme Court of Canada.

National Defence—Security and Intelligence Diversity and Inclusion Tiger Team

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 94, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the Security and Intelligence Diversity and Inclusion Tiger Team.

National Defence—Royal Canadian Air Force—Bio-Containment

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 128, dated February 8, 2022, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the Royal Canadian Air Force — bio-containment.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

Declaration on the Essential Role of Artists and Creative Expression in Canada Bill

Third Reading—Debate Adjourned

Hon. Patricia Bovey moved third reading of Bill S-208, An Act respecting the Declaration on the Essential Role of Artists and Creative Expression in Canada, as amended.

She said: Honourable senators, in speaking to third reading of this declaration on the essential role of artists and creative expression in Canada, I want to start with sincere thanks to, and on behalf of, Canada’s artists and arts organizations, as well as audiences from all corners of our country. The interest and support, and indeed, requests for this bill have resounded from artists and arts workers in all creative disciplines and from every region of Canada.

[Translation]

It was an honour to listen to their concerns and to work with them on developing this platform for a better understanding of their work and their value for Canada. This will be the foundation for developing the necessary policies for the arts, museums and performance halls, art galleries, workshops, publishing houses and more.

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[English]

To the more than 600 people involved in my consultations, all of whom made poignant and insightful contributions to this declaration, I thank you.

Colleagues, as you know, these focus groups, meetings and interviews included individuals of all ages, from high school to those in their nineties; all art forms and sizes of organizations; Indigenous, Black, immigrant, non-Indigenous, disabled, francophone and anglophone people from every part of Canada — east, central, west, north, south, in large cities and rural and small communities. The discussions were heartfelt and based on their experiences, training and professions.

The conclusions embedded in this declaration cut to the chase as to the integral roles and impacts of the arts to Canadian society while emphasizing the critical needs of the sector — especially those needs to improve the often pitiful incomes of those involved.

I also want to thank the witnesses who appeared before the Social Affairs, Science and Technology Committee for their contributions to the whole. Their knowledge and passion and their expertise in and commitment to their work was of great help in coming to the unanimous conclusions we did.

[Translation]

To my colleagues who are members of the committee, thank you. Your interest, your questions and your sincere and profound perspectives have improved this declaration. I unreservedly support the amendments that further clarify the details of the original scope of this bill. Thank you for improving it.

[English]

Colleagues, as you know, this declaration, with its 10 points and implementation strategies, is intended to be the platform for much-needed policy revisions, updates and parameters for the creative sector in this country, which is the third-largest employer in our nation and yet one whose creators comprise the largest percentage of workers living below the poverty line. May it assist in addressing these realities and make the sector not only better within but increase its ability to serve every part of contemporary life in Canada.

As senators, we all know how intrinsic creative expression is to our whole and its truly positive impacts to our health and well‑being, crime prevention, reduction in recidivism rates, employment, economy, tourism, Canada’s international perceptions and standing, the environment, rural sustainability and, of course, our knowledge of who we are.

Indeed, the work and outcomes of every ministry are impacted.

It is trite, perhaps, to repeat that our artists portray who we are — our places, our ideas and our issues — but it is necessary to do so if we are to move the perception of the arts from frill to its rightful place as an anchor in our society. As former senator Murray Sinclair has said, and as I have quoted a number of times in various publications and, indeed, yesterday in this chamber, that art validates culture. At a time of working towards reconciliation, many of the necessary reconciliACTIONs are indeed culturally based.

[Translation]

I hope that this declaration will help Canadian society take these steps. The same goes for francophone, Black and immigrant communities, as set out in the amendments unanimously adopted by the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology.

[English]

Alberta and B.C. artist Maxwell Bates wrote in 1962 of his own work:

I am an artist, who, for forty years,

Has stood at the lake edge,

Throwing stones in the lake

Sometimes, very faintly,

I hear a splash.

His splash was far greater than he realized and so too is the splash of Canada’s artists and arts organizations in all dimensions of all sizes. I hope this bill — this declaration — will be at least a faint splash in furthering the understanding and needs of the work and contributions of this insightful, innovative sector as it weaves all aspects of society together and leads us to a better place.

[Translation]

Senator Cormier described the complexity of the creative sector, and I agree. It is even more complex when it comes to museums and historical art. However, as I’ve said in this place, artists tell us so poignantly who we are, what we must cherish and what we must address as a society. As so many philosophers have affirmed, the arts nourish our souls, much like bread nourishes the body.

[English]

Parliamentary Poet Laureate Louise Halfe, an Indigenous poet from Saskatchewan, wrote two poems about the roots and needs of artists, indeed the underlying the purpose of this declaration. I asked her for one, and she came with two. The first one is called For Your Pleasure:

Black tie, evening gowns

blue jeans, funky dresses

people a line for the symphony,

theatre, a rock concert

or Leonard Cohen.

They stroll through a museum

view beadwork, paintings,

watch historical documents.

Walk from painting to painting

stall to stall at artisan sale.

Sit in awed silence

the cat ballerinas on stage

tap their feet at a fiddle dance,

admire colorful regalia and

chant with the pow-wow drums.

Their commissioned sculptures

command a street corner,

choirs at the symphony

commemorate veterans.

A tapestry of Canada Geese

feed in the prairie fields.

One of the group of seven

in a medical building.

Artists.

Working as waitresses,

ushers, bus or cab drivers,

shovel barn manure. Others

are lucky enough to have a spouse

to pay their rent.

The muse nibbles and nudges

their fingers

guides them

to a coffee shop, a studio,

to listen to the urge

to leave to you

a re-creation

of life.

She also wrote A Celebration of the Arts:

Poets, dancers, musicians, singers,

painters, paupers beg

on bleeding knees

at the foot of dreams. The muse

watches as the artists

push thigh deep through the

wingless angels in

a winter storms. In summer rains

they part the mist-filled fog

cup the tears of creativity.

Paupers living in squalor,

church basements,

taking refuge in libraries

to keep their bodies warm.

Work for pennies

to pay rent, buy macaroni,

sell their bodies, a few pieces of art,

words of poetry they recite

to four people.

Paupers unable to pay

for prescriptions, dental work,

glasses. Shop at the Sally Ann,

line up at the food banks.

There is no bank account, life

savings. No insurance. Bus pass.

If the paperwork for mingy grants

passes the muster of critical eyes

and serious competition

mouths will be fed.

Darkness is invasive

Consumes the heart with drugs,

alcohol binges and yet

the artists’ muse hangs on walls, dances

in theatres, sings on stage,

collects on shelves

while they feed on the leftovers.

People pass the busker’s

guitar, violin, or harmonica.

Making a living on finger bones.

Colleagues, I ask you to support the third reading of this bill and send it to the House of Commons quickly so their deliberations can begin and hopefully result in recognizing the value and importance of this sector. I ask you to remember my late husband’s mantra, which was, “We are all better off when we are all better off.” Canada’s artists and creative expression do make us better off, and they have the capacity to do so even more with the recognition this bill gives.

[Translation]

I again thank you for your attention and your support. Based on what I have heard from people on the ground all across the country, there is considerable enthusiasm about this Senate initiative with Bill S-208. I know that they will be truly grateful once the bill comes into force. Thank you.

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[English]

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Would the honourable senator take a question?

Senator Bovey: Absolutely.

Senator Plett: Thank you, Senator Bovey, for your speech and for your work on this bill, and indeed on an issue that you are very passionate about.

Senator Bovey, in your bill you referenced that the proposed declaration on the essential role of artists and creative expression in Canada emphasizes the need to respect and promote the role of artists and the arts in order to ensure that all Canadians and residents of Canada have equal opportunity to access and enjoy the fruits of artistic expressions.

In that context, Senator Bovey, I would appreciate your views about the concerns raised by the content creators of the government’s Bill C-11.

For instance, as you likely know, Nettwerk Music Group has stated that Bill C-11 would hurt Canadian artists and Canadian music companies, not help them. Independent filmmaker Justin Tomchuk told the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications this week that, if passed, Bill C-11 would have an unintended negative impact on Canadian streamers attempting to market their content to a global audience.

Senator Bovey, are you concerned about the criticisms that have been raised? What is your opinion about whether Bill C-11 should be substantively amended to address these concerns?

Senator Bovey: To my Manitoba colleague, I want to say thank you. You have proven my point that the arts tie all elements of society together. I have to also say that, like you, I’m receiving lots of correspondence on Bill C-11.

Your Honour, I will be speaking about Bill C-11 in due course. I’m keeping up with the testimony given in the meetings of the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications and I’m looking forward to reading more of it. Obviously, I have heard from many artists. Some of the 600 people I spoke with as we were developing this declaration underlined how important Bill C-11 was for their means of receiving revenue for the work they do.

I’m sure my honourable colleagues are well aware that a report came out recently that said that during COVID, Canada’s musicians who streamlined their work earned, on average, $67 a year. If I may, Bill C-11 has to go a long way to address that from the companies and from the payments made to it. I hope it will go to support the creators who are creating the content that goes on those streaming platforms.

If I may, Senator Plett, I will be talking to Bill C-11 directly.

Senator Plett: One brief follow-up, if the senator will indulge me.

First, I am looking forward to hearing her speech on Bill C-11, although I want to absolutely tell you that we, on this side, are not going to rush you in any way to make that speech. Take your time. Take whatever you need — a month, two or three. Make sure that you have a great speech for us whenever you get to it.

Senator Bovey, witnesses have told our committee that online streaming has led to unprecedented access by creators in rural and northern communities to a global marketplace. Again, I know that you will speak to it, but are you concerned, based upon what creators have told our committee, that Bill C-11 could undermine this global access?

Senator Bovey: I’m just back from the North, as you know. I was up in Gjoa Haven about a week or 10 days ago. To get to Gjoa Haven from Winnipeg, Senator Plett, as I’m sure that you are aware, you have to spend a day in Yellowknife. I had a nice route travelling there and then had an opportunity to meet with artists of all disciplines and arts organizations in Yellowknife. I subsequently spoke in Edmonton with many people who work in the arts sector in the rural communities of Alberta.

My concern for the rural communities is that they do not have the kind of access that the South has for a lot of this kind of creative work. If we can find a way — through Bill C-11, Bill S-208 and other initiatives that I hope will be taken — it is my hope that all Canadians in every corner of our country, of all languages and of all cultures will have the opportunity not only to engage in their own creative expression, but also to enjoy the creative expression of others.

(On motion of Senator Ataullahjan, debate adjourned.)

(At 3:15 p.m., the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 2 p.m.)

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